We've heard the doom, the gloom, the incompatibilities. List here nifty things you found in 5.0 (not secret keys, etc) but stuff you really said WOW!
One thing I really really really like is the lowercase ability. At first I thought BFD, but its great saving a file in DPII, APW, etc and have it automatically up as a cased file! It makes it really look nice.
Something else is the control panel NDA. Very useful.
I love the scrolling lists, you can't believe how awesome it is to sit in programs and scroll through fonts, menus, etc. Its all transparent to the program, thats the beauty.
There's tons more nifty things, I can't explore every single program and find it. So post 'em if you find them!
Subj: How about window manipulation? 89-08-04 20:14:00 EST
From: GuS Grafix
I love the speed of window manipulation in the Finder...both in terms of
activating the farthest back of multiple open windows and
in resizing a given window.
Marian
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-05 01:17:29 EST
From: JoshThomps
I'll just leave my comments at "Before System 5.0, I wouldn't touch the Finder with a 8-inch floppy!"
Subj: Icon Info 89-08-05 11:30:52 EST
From: Coach101
I really like the Icon Info implementation in Finder 1.3. I can get all the information I want and I am thorougly pleased with the graphic presentation.
But never being totally happy, hows about another "file card" that shows all of the access bits individually in addition to the old "Locked"/"Unlocked" check box.
Subj: 8" Floppies 89-08-05 11:33:39 EST
From: Coach101
Hey Josh, I have an 8" floppy system (two drives) and even have a ProDos compatible ROM in the interface card.
Just think, if you got it from me, you *might* even be able to touch previous finders :)
Subj: Changing Splash Colors 89-08-05 12:00:32 EST
From: AFA Parik
I got tired of watching that bluish color come up every time I boot, esp since my border is BLACK. Sooo, i went ahead and patched it. For those who don't boot into Finder, you may find it nice...
-- USE ONLY ON SYSTEM DISK v5.0 AND A BACKUP --
a) run block warden
b) "F"ollow file "START.GS.OS"
c) use the right arrow key till you get to block 6
d) "E"dit bytes
e) Move the inverse box down by pressing the down arrow key until the box is on the row where the right hand number is "110".
f) Hold down the right arrow key untilyou are at the row where the top number reads "0E"
g) change the "DDDD" to a "xxxx". XXXX = color you want. Just type in the numbers, ie, 00 00 for black. Only type in four numbers! The color table is...
0000 = Black
1111 = Dark Blue
2222 = Yellow [putrid]
3333 = Grey
4444 = Dark Red
5555 = Purple
6666 = Orange
7777 = Peach
8888 = Light Green
9999 = Aquamarine
AAAA = Fluorescent Yellow/Green
BBBB = very light green
CCCC = dark grey
DDDD = Light Blue
EEEE = real yellow
FFFF = White
h) "W"rite the block back to disk
Now whenever you bootup your drive, it'll change it to that color.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-05 13:33:54 EST
From: HyperRam
That's really neat Parik-my border is black too-but I don't have BW.
Ram
Subj: Re: Not having Block Warden 89-08-05 13:43:35 EST
From: MrJayDee
You can use Copy II Plus' 3.5" Bit Copy... instead of Block Warden...
Go into it, and use Sector Edit, just as you would use Block Warden...
Mr. Jay Dee
Subj: How 'bout them windows! 89-08-05 21:54:20 EST
From: Airship
The only thing I cansay about 5.0 is WOW! The first time I opened disks on the desktop I thought I'd get whip-lash trying to follow the motion. The new control panel is great. The lower case in volume names really improves the look of the desktop (I like the little lock icon too). The new Icon Info is really nice too. What can I say, the whole thing is neat. If this is the sign of things to come for the GS, WOW again, the future looks exciting.
Also anxiously awaiting the arrival of Pascal II so I can start playing with this puppy. Congrats to Jim and his crew!
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-05 22:03:02 EST
From: GSJohn
The best thing about 5.0 is that I've finally got it! I love the speed. The controll panel and scrolling menu's are great, but its the speed I love. I also really like being able to calculate folder size. I can now find out if that folder on my hard drive will fit on my disk. I now know I have 1,224 K of fonts on my drive.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-06 08:59:42 EST
From: HyperRam
I like the new disk driver-alot faster.
Ram
Subj: Icon info 89-08-07 00:02:59 EST
From: JSchober
I like it, too... those filecards did have me a little intrigued. There are two (of which "Where" is more or less useless, IMHO: they could've put the full path on the "General" card... I guess in ProDOS devices, anyway... really large ones might get a bit hairy), and lots of space for more. Could a Finder icon contain custom information?? Will we ever see a "user comments on file" card, like the Mac has?? What's the point of being able to click on the icon in the General card (I =think= it used to be a disabledItem in the previous Finders)?? C'mon, c'mon, enquiring minds wanna know. :)
--Joey
Subj: re: Icon Info 89-08-07 22:00:56 EST
From: John moyln
personally, I could do without the little notebook style garbage, and would have much preferred the addition of "note space" as seen in the Mac...
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-08 17:37:18 EST
From: HyperRam
Why did they take out the Aux $ thingy on the Info Card, it would of looked more impressive. :) I used the Aux Type $ anyway to determine if I could load this and that C1 pic etc...
Why did they take OUT some of the icons too, like AppleWorks stuff?
Ram
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-08 20:43:39 EST
From: A GibberFC
The problem is with Prodos... It will not support a notation with files.
Now if we ever get filetypes and a FST that will handle that stuff.... Also I love the way the file card system works under appletalk and a file server... None of the Access priviliges stuff that you have to have in a DA.
I love the windows...
And I hope that every company releases the updates to all the programs that will not work under 5.0 in Expressload...
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-08 21:34:25 EST
From: HyperRam
Now that's a big wish Gibber. :)
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-09 00:26:19 EST
From: Montagne
Removing the Aux type in $xxxx format was a human interface issue. Most customers are not that technical and it was very confusing to them so it was removed.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-09 01:04:01 EST
From: Renegade14
I downloaded Sys 5.0 the other night, and I'm trying it out. So far I love it. I think I need seat belts for my chair.....
RENEGADE14
Subj: Re: File Notes 89-08-09 22:40:14 EST
From: TMH2
User file comments most certainly could be implemented under the ProDOS file system under GS/OS, right now. The note entries could be resources of the file.
Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_
Z R
Z T. Mike Howeth II N
Z Dallas, Texas N
Z (TMH2) V
Z B Q
ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-10 00:03:02 EST
From: ShrinkIt
If you have appleshare, you can have one of those "note things" in the finder, and it will allow you to edit it or whatever...
andy
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-10 01:39:52 EST
From: LVirden
Would it be possible to update the info notecard so that a user selected option in the control panel determined whether you see a hex or ASCII presentation of the aux type field?
Subj: I'm going to scream at you all. 89-08-10 21:15:09 EST
From: Matt DTS
(So hold your ears.)
The auxiliary type was presented in the Finder's Info card because Apple assigns file types and *auxiliary* types, and the Finder only displayed strings by File Type. An AppleWorks GS Page Layout document and a Medley document would both say "Desktop Publishing"; only the auxiliary type gave advanced users a chance at telling them apart (if the custom icons weren't present).
On 5.0, the Finder *does* display strings by file type and auxiliary type. All the AppleWorks GS files, the Medley files, etc, have the program's name in the "kind" string. Even ShrinkIt files are displayed as "ShrinkIt (NuFX) documents". Every assignment we had made by Golden Master time went into the Finder.
And, the strings are part of a new data structure (documented in the File Type Note for file type $42) that allows you to define your own strings for file types and aux types by adding more $42 files to the */ICONS directory. (The supplied files shouldn't be edited.)
You got something better than what you had and you didn't notice it. I assign the file types, and have written 98% of the File Type Notes, and generally give the structure to these things, and even *I* don't want to look at hex filetypes and auxtypes. I assign new ones on too regular a basis to try to keep up with them all. I'd much rather see the Finder say "Medley Document" than display "Desktop Publishing ($54)/Aux: $DD3E" and look it up on a piece of paper.
--Matt
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-10 23:04:44 EST
From: GSJohn
Thanks Matt. I was woundering what those icon lists were in the icon folder and now I know.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-11 21:02:34 EST
From: HyperRam
Could you add a new Icon File into the Icons folder? I did for AppleWorks files and got a spreadsheet icon in my ClipBoard!
Ram
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-12 01:00:28 EST
From: GSJohn
Ram, if you cut an Icon with DIcEd it would stay in the clipboard. Is that what you mean? It is easy to add icons to the new finder, just don't add or remove them from finder.icons or finder.icons.x and don't make any duplicate icons.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-12 01:49:18 EST
From: GS Samuel
Some mentioned in another folder that extra characters in the font files were now useable in AWGS via the option key. Could someone be a little more specific?
Are the little cards found at book stores that show the optional characters for the Mac now of any use with the GS. With System.Disk 5.0, is the keyboard now mapped the same as the Mac?
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-12 07:26:46 EST
From: LVirden
Matt, with regard to the aux field - is there a way to set the aux field by text name now then? When I download a file from a service and find that the aux field is incorrect, before I could use one of the various programs to give it the hex type - what I would like is comperable feature from within the Finder, but since the hex value isnt present, I will need some other method to fix wrong hex types...
Subj: Re: No screaming..... 89-08-13 05:20:08 EST
From: Montagne
Matt -
TAKE IT EASY !!!!!
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-13 23:03:31 EST
From: Matt DTS
Thanks. I probably needed that.
Anyway:
Finder currently doesn't (and never has) allowed you to change the "kind" of a file in any way. I recommend FAZ II as a good program to change a file's kind.
--Matt
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-13 23:41:40 EST
From: HyperRam
Oh-DUH!! I DID cut an icon of the AppleWorks spreadsheet out but this never happened on 4.0. Hmm.
Ram
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-22 00:30:32 EST
From: BuffNav
Whille fiddling around with the keyboard during the load sequence - before the thermometer reaches halfway - pressing the OA-Option-CTRL-Tab at the same time results in a nifty 'ExpressLoad' message under the thermometer.
Is this just cosmetic or does it actually indicate some change in the load speed/sequence ?
Love the speed; I almost over G'd my chair ! But Why don't some of my old custom icons seem to work with the new Finder? The file names are correct as are the file types...Could the infamous Aux type be tripping me up? If so where can I find the info to make the old custom ones work without having to redo the entire batch?
BuffNav
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-22 20:36:14 EST
From: JimMensch
Keyboard can now function like the "mac" (if ya wanna call it that) or like a traditional GS, try the Alphabet selection in da control panel...
Also, if ya wanna try it out, use the option key, (try Option-i e)
mensch
Subj: Re: ExpressLoad message... 89-08-22 23:08:51 EST
From: Montagne
It's purely cosmetic. Just a PERK for the engineer behind ExpressLoad. While were on the subject, it's time for another Apple//GS contest (remember the contest to see how to get the names of the developement team to be displayed when the GS was introduced). Well, there is a way to get the ExpressLoad message to come up without user intervention. This one is gonna be a little tougher! Let's see if anyone can figure it out.
Ray
Subj: auxtypes; clipboard; Finder comments 89-08-23 00:26:43 EST
From: Dave Lyons
HyperRam--You can tell the difference between different kinds of $C0/$C1 files by paying attention to the "Kind" string that appears when you View by Kind or get Icon Info on a file. That string depends on the auxtype as well as the filetype, like Matt/etc said.
Cutting or Copying an icon in DIcEd under 4.0 left it on the clipboard, just like it does under 5.0.
TMH--While the Finder could store comments in resources, not that adding a resource to a file that previously didn't have a resource fork is a pretty questionable thing to do. Sure, it's *easy* enough, but any file with a resource fork is no longer readable by ProDOS 8 or ProDOS 16.
--Dave
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-23 01:16:06 EST
From: JoshThomps
What, like change the auxtype of one of the GS/OS system files to the initials of one of the engineers or something? I'll have to fiddle with it.
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-23 21:57:18 EST
From: Montagne
Geeze... You guys are just to quick!!!
Subj: Permanent expressload? 89-08-25 12:53:49 EST
From: AFA Parik
I liked having that expressload message come up so much (all you have to do is hold down oa and option while 5.0 is booting) I wanted to make it permanent. So I just hunted on a pretty bare 5.0 for $c025 with block warden. Found it in the expressload file (tadaa). A little digging showed it accessed $00200A, which is the auxtype of START.GS.OS. It checks if bit 7 is on, and if so it pops the expressload message up. Well, fine, i set bit 7 of start.gs.os to on. Reboot. Nothing! so i try setting bit 15. Nothing! As a matter of fact, no matter what I do to start.gs.os, if its not a $5254 (which is text-off) it'll reset back to $0003! BTW - if you do set bit 15 ($8000), it turns off the thermometer.
I just got pissed and changed the BMI to a BRA, but I'm wondering whats the "proper" way to make the expressload message come up every time?
Subj: Re: Adding resource for note 89-08-27 11:59:40 EST
From: TMH2
But who cares if it can't be read by P16. You guys say that our long wait for 5.0 was that is would be so reliable that we'd never NEED p16 again. Backing down now? :)
The P8 concern is, of course, valid, since it wasn't seen fit adopt the "syntactical" convention that a resource is an enhancement to a file, rather than a structural change. (P8 shouldn't care that a file has resources, if it is just opening it to read. I realize the can of worms that opens, though, when one is copying a file under P8).
Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_
Z R
Z T. Mike Howeth II N
Z Dallas, Texas N
Z (TMH2) V
Z B Q
ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-27 22:16:31 EST
From: GS Samuel
This has probably been mentioned earlier ...
But if you hold down Apple-shift while choosing "About the Finder..." in the Apple menu, you can see the credits for each part of the Finder.
Sam
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-08-28 22:18:49 EST
From: Montagne
Actually, you are seeing more than the names of those who worked on the FINDER. The AUG (Applications & Utilities Group) wrote the FINDER, INSTALLER, ADVANCED DISK UTILITIES and CONTROL PANEL CDEVs. The GS/OS group wrote the operating system. The FIRMWARE group did not take part in System Disk 5.0 but was responsible for the BANK $FF ROM. The TOOLS Group is responsible for all tools in ROM and those included on System Disk 5.0. The remaining groups are support groups, without whom, we could not get anything done at all!!!
Ray
Subj: ExpressLoad msg 89-08-29 23:47:41 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Parik, how did you decide that the value you found at was the auxtype for Start.GS.OS? (I'd do some more research if I were you, I think. The ExpressLoad message *doesn't* depend on the auxtype of Start.GS.OS, but....)
Subj: resources/Finder/P8/etc. 89-08-30 00:00:38 EST
From: Dave Lyons
TMH, ProDOS 16 isn't a big part of the concern--GS/OS replaces it.
But since P8 can't deal with resource forks, having the Finder add resource forks to files, at least without the user's permission, would be an exceptionally rude thing to do.
I don't think I'm "backing away" from anything: resources are very nice, but they don't provide a universal solution to Finder issues.
--Dave
Subj: 89-08-31 00:55:07 EST
From: AFA Parik
Yeah Dave - a little birdie told me in email what I was doing wrong. Thanks birdie. :)
Another question...
Why is SYS.RESOURCES open? At least thats what I remember someone saying at a chat. Is there a reason for this? Are any other files (besides dynamic) left open?
Also, is there a reason why the cache (since 4.0) has a bottom level of 16k? Its not a big deal, but I sort of would like a "real" 0k cache.
Finally, is it dangerous to do stuff to a disk, eject it, take it to another computer, write stuff to it, and then bring it back to the original disk and do stuff to it? Since the cache is active, would it mess up the disk? Not only finder (since I guess it knows when a disk is ejected) but other programs that use the sf tools or whatnot.
Subj: Re: GS/OS replaces... 89-08-31 23:42:02 EST
From: TMH2
P16 only in an ideal environment, where all old programs run on the new OS... In other cases, it USUALLY replaces it :)
Subj: Couple of answers 89-09-01 01:55:56 EST
From: AndyBoy1
(1) Why not put finder comments in the file's resources?
Because there would be no way to guarantee that the resource type and ID you picked wasn't already (or soon to be) used by the program itself.... Among other reasons....
Also, there's another way to put finder comments in: switch to a file system which supports them.... Which place would you rather have us work on?
(2) Why is sys.resources left open?
Because there are elements of the system software which are taken directly from that file - so they always need to be around. Example: One of the new button types is defined as a control defproc resource.
(3) Why can't you set a truly zero k cache?
A better way to slow down the system would be to hit reset every few minutes. Believe me, if you saw a true zero k cache system you -wouldn't- want it.
--Andy
Subj: Re: Nifty Things In 5.0 89-09-04 23:17:28 EST
From: Jump Long
Parik,
Bad things would happen if you ejected a disk that had a file open on it, moved it to another system, did some stuff to it, and then brought it back. But then... you already knew about that. One of the bits returned with a DStatus device call is "disk has been switched". That condition will purge the cache for that device.
-JML
Subj: file comments in resources 89-09-05 21:02:05 EST
From: Dave Lyons
We *could* define a System resource type for file comments, without causing a conflict--there's a range of resource types reserved for the system.
Unfortunately, it's only a marginally useful idea--it would mean you could only add comments to files you never wanted to be able to access from ProDOS 8 (or ProDOS 16).
--Dave
Subj: System Disk 5.0 Hidden Keys 89-07-26 10:50:43 EST
From: LanTech1 Msgs: 5 (89-07-28)
I have already found two hidden keys in System Disk 5.0.
The first is during the boot process. When you see the therm. Press and hold OPTION and OPEN APPLE, and the word EXPRESSLOAD will appear in the Therm. Box.
The second is in Finder 1.3. Press and hold OPTION and SHIFT as you pull down the Apple menu, and "About the finder..." will change to "About the system..."
Have Fun!
Lan-Tech
Subj: Re: System Disk 5.0 Hidden Keys 89-07-26 17:17:48 EST
From: HyperRam
Hold Option-Open Apple and select Abou the Finder... and SOMETIMES it will say Tested by -------. Also click on v1.0 when you're using the control panel.
Ram
Subj: Re: System Disk 5.0 Hidden Keys 89-07-28 02:13:02 EST
From: FeinDavid
You don't have to hold any keys for the tested by screen line to show up in about the finder.... It shows up every few times you check the finder.... Also, the planes don't come by in 320 for me.... what about you?
Subj: Re: System Disk 5.0 Hidden Keys 89-07-28 22:10:23 EST
From: JoshThomps
Well, I tested it last night, and to be exact, it seems to come up on every fourth click on About the Finder.
Subj: Re: System Disk 5.0 Hidden Keys 89-07-28 22:45:18 EST
From: HyperRam
In 320 the planes don't work. :( 'Hey! I was going to ask that! :)'
